[nSLUG] Devuan anyone? [Was:Re: More `systemd` ... `homed`?]

Jack Warkentin jwark at bellaliant.net
Sat May 2 13:15:59 ADT 2020

Hi Everybody

Thanks, Joel, for starting off this thread. And Rory, I like your 
comparison to systemd as a cancer.

I know very little about systemd. But, there were a couple of very 
simple admin tasks that each would have required about 5 minutes for me 
to perform with SysV that I couldn't do with systemd, without days of 
heavy documentation reading.

Systemd seems to be useful in large system environments, but for the 
home user without experience in such environments, I find it's the pits. 
There is far too steep a learning curve required for home users to 
achieve whatever benefits it might have for them. And homed sounds like 
adding insult to injury.

At present I am using a "hybrid" Debian/Devuan system. I discovered how 
to install Debian/Buster without systemd but couldn't find a desktop 
environment solely within Debian that suited me. So I added Devuan to 
the start of my sources.list file and installed Xfce, plus some other 
programs whose Debian version depended on systemd. This system works 
just fine at present, but I have no idea how I could do a dist upgrade 
with it. I expect when that time comes that I will switch completely to 

Has anybody on the list any experience with Devuan? I would be 
interested in other users pros and cons.



Rory wrote:
> I have similar feelings about systemd. It has some uses, especially in
> enterprises and in some application development architectures where
> Linux is used to host higher-level execution environments (i.e. Docker,
> k8s, etc).
> However, I strongly dislike its opacity and the trend for it to gobble
> up everything about the init and runtime environment. More and more
> it's taking over networking, firewall and so forth. All 'problems' that
> didn't need to be solved, IMO. It's part of what I've termed a bit of a
> cancer in the GNU/Linux world: everything has to be a swiss army knife
> of complexity and functions. I was much happier with the old UNIX ethos
> of "do one thing and do it well". The Linux way is becoming a squeeze
> everyone into the same sized box ethos.
> An now homed. This is an even more extreme case of a problem that
> didn't need to be fixed. At all. If major distros adopt this as the
> default for user home directories it might be the last straw for me and
> send me running back to the BSD world.
> On Thu, 2020-04-30 at 23:44 -0300, Joel Maxwell wrote:
>> Hi all, hope you are managing well with shelter-in-place.
>> I encountered an article today, and I hope to refrain from strong
>> reactions while I add a few thoughts below.
>> https://www.techrepublic.com/article/linux-home-directory-management-is-about-to-undergo-major-change/
>> _______________________________________________
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>> nSLUG at nslug.ns.ca
>> http://nslug.ns.ca/mailman/listinfo/nslug

Jack Warkentin, phone 902-404-0457, email jwark at bellaliant.net
39 Inverness Avenue, Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada, B3P 1X6

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